Today marks the 10th anniversary of a classic CrashPad episode, 142 starring James Darling and Tobi Hill-Meyer. The 2013 scene features a funny role-play about a ‘dick delivery service’ (long before the days of Amazon and Door Dash) with ad libbing and hot T4T sex showcasing DIY dental dams, strap-on sex, and muffing. After the scene, Tobi and James sat to chat about challenges and pleasures in role modeling trans sexuality in queer porn. Here’s an excerpt from their video, edited for clarity.

JAMES: I’m really glad to get a chance to work with you in front of a camera. Because the last time would have been during Genderfellator and, yeah, I’ve had a crush on you for a long time since. And it’s really fun to finally make that happen. And I think things really went well today. [Tobi nods.] I got to do a wide range of activities. Yeah – how did you feel about the shoot?

TOBI: I had a really great time. You know, we’ve been talking about doing this for almost two years now and [both laugh] and finally making it happen. And, um, you’re a lot of fun to work with.

JAMES: [laughs] Thanks.

TOBI: And I had a lot of fun with the little scenario we came up with today. I think it worked really well and it kind of fit into what we were already planning on doing. It felt like it all came together really well and worked out good. And it was a lot of fun.

JAMES: I think the hardest part for me is dialogue. [both laugh] I’m more of a ‘get down to it and fuck’ kind of guy. But that was still fun to come up with on the fly. Was there stuff you found particularly challenging today?

TOBI: I actually really liked the ad libbing. I kind of have a theatrical family I was raised in. So, that was fun. It was also fun watching you squirm a little bit as you were trying to figure out your dialogue. [both laugh] But challenging? You know, not much. I have this band-aid. I cut myself while making yam chips. And, so I had this part of the back of my mind that was like, “Be careful about the band-aid. Where’s the band-aid? The band-aid’s not getting wet, is it?” [laughs]

JAMES: I think, I think you managed to do just fine with that.

JAMES: So, Tobi, why do you continue to do porn?

TOBI: [smiles, laughs] You know, for one – it’s just really fun. I really enjoy it, and I’ve actually been working so much on my own films in the past couple of years that I think it’s been at least a year, if not two, since I’ve performed in front of the camera.

I think that it’s really a great way to show visibility. This is me and I’m just going to be me, and then there’s someone who looks a little different from everyone else, who acts a little different than everyone else, who has sex a little different from everyone else, who people can see and relate to. I get a lot of responses, like emails, from people who say how impactful it’s been to be able to see my work. It can mean so much to get those messages. “Wow! I never realized that I could have sex that way.” Or, “It’s amazing to see somebody that I can identify with and start changing how I feel about my own body.” That’s really amazing to hear.

I have a sex education background, so I  love slipping little things – teaching moments – into my porn. Like the glove alteration we did.

JAMES: The glove alteration. And the muffing too. That’s something you don’t really see talked about. I have a lot of very similar reasons I continue to do porn.  I feel like, especially as trans people, we’re not really taught how to relate to our bodies in ways that are affirming and hot and feel good.

Having different kinds of sexual representation in porn, especially for trans folks, is really amazing to keep adding a voice to that conversation, and different techniques of ways to get off. Like muffing, that was really cool to be able to demonstrate.

TOBI: Yeah, it was really great doing muffing with you too, because you were actually the one who first told me about muffing.

JAMES: [laughs] Really?

TOBI: That was years ago. I’m tempted to say it was on LiveJournal? [both laugh]

JAMES: Huh…

TOBI: I don’t really remember the context. There was some trans community [post where] a question came up. You started talking about that.

JAMES: [nods] So, explain muffing a little bit.

TOBI: Muffing is penetration of the inguinal canals. I do not know a non-technical term that really works for that. [James nods.] But inguinal canals are the body cavity that testes descend from. And where they get pushed back up, for folks that do tucking. You can find that loose skin in the scrotal tissue and kind of press up and in. There’s two of them, and, once you get in there, then there’s a whole nerve cluster of different – it’s not nerve endings, it’s nerve centers. So there’s a lot of really fun stuff to play around with.

If feels very different from most of the kinds of sex I’ve had. At first it was like, “This is weird? What’s going on? I don’t know if I like that.” [James smiles and laughs] But then I played with it a little bit more and it can be such intense, powerful sensations. That’s what I really like with it.

JAMES: Yeah, I’ve had partners describe it as another way to get fucked that is really intense, but can feel really, really good. With some practice.

TOBI: Yeah, the cavity there is pretty small. On a lot of people you can only get a finger, or maybe up to the first or second knuckle. But then for some folks it’s larger and with practice it stretches a little. We got your whole thumb in me. [James nods] I have a friend that, we were actually able to do it so that I was muffing her with my strapless. I didn’t think that was possible before I did it. That was pretty incredible. But I don’t expect that would be possible most of the time.

JAMES: Yeah, I’ve been able to penetrate a partner with my own flesh dick doing that but, yeah, it’s challenging. A lot of slipping around to get the right angle.

TOBI: Yeah.

JAMES: So that was really cool to be able to showcase that today.

TOBI: Yeah, it’s really great to be back at the CrashPad. It’s been a couple of years and it’s really fun to see how the production has shifted here over the past… well, I guess my first shoot was like, four years ago? Something like that. Time passes, things change, and my own production has really changed in the past couple of years. It’s also great to see things here. And this new location is really awesome.

And you are pretty awesome – we’ve had these conversations back and forth for a while now and I’ve always felt really comfortable around you and whenever we talk I always feel real at ease. That was like why I wanted to ask you to do this. And I’m really glad we did.

JAMES: Yeah. I really think you and what you’re doing is amazing. I think you’re a total babe so I’m really glad that I finally get to shoot with you today. And especially for the CrashPad. I mean, CrashPad has seen me through all sorts of different stages of my life, so, yeah. It’s been pretty, pretty amazing.

Happy Porniversary to James and Tobi! Learn more about muffing in Fucking Trans Women, a zine created in 2010 by Mira Bellwether with resources and information about trans women’s sexuality. See our Queer Sexual Health and Resources page for additional guides and information. (And you don’t need to call 1-800-Dick-N-a-Box to get the Mustang dildo; find it online at GoodVibes!)

Watch the episode and full Behind the Scenes video.