Transcription: Michael J. Morris

[blurry shot]: Where am I?
[blurry shot]: You’ll see.
Gloria (leading a blind-folded Tobi): Turn around. Sit down.
[several shots of filming, unintelligible dialogue]
(Shine, starting out of frame): If you want to, like, hit this corner of the bed when you first start in …
Were you going to sit on this side of the bed?
Tobi: That.
Gloria (leading Tobi): Well, you’re going.
Tobi: I’m pretty good while blind-folded.
Shine: And ready, and go. Well, thank you.
[cut to interview on bed]
Gloria: Well, I’m smiling a lot (laughs).
Tobi: That was definitely really fun.
Gloria: Yeah. It was really fun. It was really intense. (laughs)
Tobi: Yeah.
Gloria: Yeah.
Tobi. Aw. I’m still shivering a little bit.
Gloria: Yeah. Me too. Good shivers, I hope.
Tobi. Yeah. Yeah. I really liked how we were playing with the whole “captive”/”captor” thing …
Gloria: Yeah. Yeah, I liked switching with you, that we both kinda’ got to be silly and bratty. Like, we
both got to top, we both got to bottom.
Tobi: Mm-hmm. It was really fun, like, when I got to, like, flip you, pick you up, throw you across
the bed.
Gloria: (laughs) It was fun to have that done to me, and it was also fun to fight back, even if the
fighting back was in vain. (laughs)
Tobi: Yeah.
[cut to filming scene]
Gloria: Fuck! [Tobi wrestles Gloria onto bed; lots of laughing]
[cut to later in shoot]
(Gloria, out of frame): Can you get back to where you had your hands behind you again?
(out of frame): See? She did it again! (lots of laughing)
Tobi: It doesn’t slide as well that way … There we go.
[cut to later in shoot]
Gloria: Count to ten.
Tobi: One … two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten.
Gloria: Count to twenty.
Tobi: Eleven, twelve, thirteen, fourteen …
[cut back to interview]
Gloria: Was anything hard? Challenging?
Tobi: Well, I think one of the things that’s very interesting for me is that for such a long time, like,
you know, I’ve been out there looking for queer porn, dyke porn, feminist porn, radical porn, that
has trans women in it …
Gloria: Mm-hmm.
Tobi: … and there’s pretty much nothing.
Gloria: Yeah.
Tobi: And so, like, I’m really excited to be making some, but, like, it definitely also gets me popping
into the whole, like, super analytical, well … when there’s so little representations it’s … anything
could be about this or that …

Gloria: Yeah.
Tobi: … And so, like, I think I have a history of disassociating every now and then, and so
sometimes I had to, like, really, like, push to refocus on what was actually happening instead of, like,
how are people going to interpret what I’m doing in different ways.
Gloria: Yeah. It’s funny, actually. I mean, I know that you and I were having this conversation
leading up to the shoot, but I was having a lot of similar feelings just around being a fat woman, and
like, the fact that even in a lot of dyke porn, there’s not a lot of fat girls, or there’s, like, the one token
fat girl. And I was really glad to be doing this shoot, but it was also, like, “Oh, god, what am I going
to look like?” you know? In comparison to all these other people. And it was a lot of, like, “No, I
need to not do the loop of comparing myself to other people; I need to just be me.”
Tobi: Yeah.
Gloria: And then, yeah, also to just echo what you said, I mean, I completely agree with you that
there’s not, well, a lot … enough dyke porn with trans women in it. So, it’s part of why I really
wanted to do the shoot specifically with you.
[cut back to scene]
Gloria: Look at me, sweetie. Hi.
Tobi: Hi.
Gloria: You here?
Tobi: Yeah. Oh, yeah.
Gloria: Look at me.
[cut to later in scene]
Gloria: Can you just hold it in for a minute?
Tobi: Uh-huh.
Gloria: Just keep it still … like that.
Tobi: Oh, yeah.
Gloria: (laughs) That’s the problem with long hair.
[cut back to interview]
Gloria: Other challenges … I don’t know, I started having these little worries like, “Am I being
expressive enough?” which also felt like a kind of going into disassociating land, and it was like, “No,
I, again, don’t need to worry about that.” That’s funny, because I’ve done a lot of porn, but a lot of
the modeling that I’ve done has been more like, you know, just me. So, it’s really different to shoot
with a partner.
Tobi: Yeah.
[cut back to scene]
Gloria: Can you hurt me some more?
Tobi: Yeah.
[cut back to interview]
Tobi: So, how else was this different from stuff you’ve done before?
Gloria: Um, well, a lot of the stuff that I’ve done, I’ve done sort of more queer indie stuff where it
still is just me, so, it’s like, cute sexy pictures, you know, maybe I’m masturbating, but generally it’s
not me fucking on camera with another person. So, just like the intensity of, like, being on camera
and having sex certainly adds an element. And, yeah, I mean, now with the more mainstream stuff,
there’s this way that you market yourself in sex work for more mainstream places that you don’t have
to when it’s a queer company. So … (laughs)
Tobi: That was the big thing for me …
Gloria: I was, like, “Oh, I can essentially be me,” you know, I can just essentially be me with my
partner, as opposed to, “We need to play this game,” you know, like, it’s dyke porn, it’s not girl on
girl.
Tobi: Yeah. Exactly. And I mean, like, the stuff I’ve done before was mainstream and, yeah, there’s
some really not fun representations of trans women in mainstream porn …
Gloria: Yeah. Yeah, there is.
Tobi: And so, like, being able to just kind of, like, you know, not have to be so super feminine, that I

even could be butch if I wanted to, that I could, like, let my body respond the way my body responds
instead of, like, fitting into someone else’s time table.
Gloria: Mm-hmm.
Tobi: That was, yeah, a big difference. We did get to shoot together that one time, though.
Gloria. We did.
Tobi: That was really fun, and it was interesting for me because I’m just kind of, like, trying my hand
at this, and both being in the scene with you and directing.
Gloria: Do you want to talk more about that project?
Tobi: Yeah. Yeah.
Gloria: I think you should.
Tobi: I’m working on a video myself that I’m trying to pull together that represents trans women
in this kind of radical/indie/queer porn. And I’ve been doing a bunch of different shoots over the
summer, a quick learning curve, because when I started, I knew nothing about cameras. I could kind
of point and shoot, but it’s interesting to all of a sudden take on an endeavor like that.
Gloria: I didn’t really know what to expect. You know, I knew … I knew that in general it would not
be like the mainstream porn experience that I tend to have. I knew that it would be different because
I was fucking on camera, as opposed to just like modeling. You know, otherwise, I wasn’t really sure
how it was going to go.
Tobi: Yeah. I mean, I didn’t feel like I really had that many expectations, just have, you know, a brief
outline of the kinds of things that we were planning on doing. And, um, yeah, you know, just getting
a chance to do fun stuff with you. Which we did. And it was fun. (Gloria laughs)
Gloria: I’d like to do it again (both laugh).
Tobi: Yeah. That would definitely be fun.
Gloria: Yay.
[credits]