Crashpad opening theme music
-Cut to behind the scenes-
Camera Person: Uh, about, from here I’ll go ahead and get you tidy the art. Straighten it up a little bit
Vivi: Who dis?
*Camera clicks*
Camera Person: Ok! *loud laughter* C-can we get you both back into position? I’m just gonna get a quick shot of you both just admiring the art for about 10 seconds.
Devon: *to Vivi* You’re such a good actress!
*Devon and Camera crew laugh*
-Cut to interview-
Vivi: Hi
Devon: Hi
*Both giggle*
Vivi: What did you enjoy about today’s shoot?
Devon: Umm… I think I enjoyed, a chance to step out of the expected. I feel like just, based on sight, people might read us in a really particular way, and I kinda wan- kinda wanted to flip that and kind of, you know, explore like gender play and gender expression and how like, sometimes talks of masculinity can really just fuck shit up. And erm, how, like, you’re not gonna take that *laughs* So yeah, I thought that was really cool, cos I wanted to find another person who was like a sw-, a switchy performer, but like it wouldn’t be too obvious what we were going to do. And I feel like what we did was maybe the opposite of what would be expected of us. What about yourself?
Vivi: Well that was all great. I um, really liked the blue lipstick.
*both laugh*
Vivi: That was so much fun
Devon: Yeah
Vivi: Um, I think I really just liked how light hearted an- an- and really playful it was. And um, you surprised me with some really fun faces, and I was like *clap* ‘again, again!’…
*Devon laughs*
Vivi: ‘… do it again!’ And that was, I mean, those are the kind of weird fetishes I’m into *laughs*
Devon: Yeah, yeah
-Cut to episode-
Vivi: You don’t like lipstick?
Devon: It’s not my favourite.
Vivi: Is it too feminine for you?
Devon: Yeah.
Vivi: Why is that?
Devon: I don’t know.
Vivi: You don’t know.
Devon: I don’t wanna fuckin’…
Vivi: You don’t want to explain that me!?
Devon: I don’t wanna explain toxic masculinity right now
Vivi: Oh mmm…
Devon: Pretty yet perpetuating, yeah.
-Cut to interview-
Devon: Ok, so were there, did you have any challenges?
Vivi: I guess, realistically speaking, it’s just um… because I was being the dominant one I wanted to make sure I was still like, careful with you.
Devon: Mhmm
Vivi: And then, but I didn’t wanna be like, ‘be like this, OK’!
Devon: Yeah
Vivi: So now I’m gonna push this on you.
Devon: Yeah
Vivi: But you like it, right?
*Both giggle*
Vivi: So, umm, y’know, was like, ‘be smooth, be a good actor’. I don’t know. Even though it’s not acting it’s still roleplaying, and it was fun and stuff. Um, also, just like, being really natural with where things were. Um… I, I wanted it, I don’t know I didn’t want it to be like my bedroom and I didn’t wanna be like ‘give me this – give me that’.
Devon: Yeah
Vivi: But it wasn’t too bad. I mean we still had a great time. How about yourself?
Devon: Umm, I think for me as someone who deals with like both physical and invisible disabilities, like, um, sometimes performing can like force me to put un- unrealistic expectations on my body, and that’s often times why I have elected to take more kind of assertive or dominant or, like, toppy roles in film. So for me this was like a departure from kind of being closed off to the potential of something going wrong and allowing myself to be able- someone who I’ve no played with before, who may not know every little thing that does or doesn’t work for me and so that was kind of the most difficult thing for me as ‘Devon the human’ not Devon the performer. Um, but as a performer, umm … I guess, roleplaying a trans bro, like, was kind of hard for me. Because even though I tend to aesthetically look like one I’m like femme identified and gender queer and I often lumped into that category. And so like everything I was saying was like ‘What are the worse things that have ever been said to me’…
Vivi: Oh my God
Devon: … by like an awful trans bro, or that I’ve heard and I’ve been like ‘Oh my God! You make me ashamed to be taking testosterone’. Like, and, so I think was actually hard for me because I wanted to like – make faces as I was saying things, and I was like ‘don’t change your face – don’t change your face; you believe this is the truth’.
*Both laugh*
Devon: So it was like a stretch for me acting.
Vivi: That was kind of a funny thing for me cos I’m like, ok, here’s this creep and now I’m supposed to … wanna top them,
Devon: Yeah
Vivi: And I’m just like *claps* niño malo [bad boy]
*Both laugh*
Vivi: And realistically I would’ve um … like, been a lot more heavy handed. But I wanted to be conscious of like, my partner. My scene partner.
Devon: Yeah. Yeah. No, and I like. That’s the funny thing, cos it’s like, it’s one of those things where I couldn’t actually say ‘You can be more heavy handed’ because that would like, fuck up like the dynamic and the role what we’ve established of like you calling the shots. I can’t be like ‘you can hit me harder than that!’
*Both laugh*
Devon: And it’s like it doesn’t work. It’s not funny. It’s like… But in my head I was like ‘I’m not even bothered’.
Both laugh
Vivi: [offscreen] I know
Devon: ‘do you have anything? A pipe?’
*Devon chuckles*
Vivi: Like after you slapped me I wanted to be like ‘Wait let me do that one again’.
Devon: *laughs* yeah!
Vivi: Now that I know how much force we’re talkin’ about here.
Devon: Yeah. Like, can we get a do over? Yeah, um, I think that was probably the hardest for me. Was like, I think, that newness that comes with working with someone you’ve never worked with before, and I think that’s really, like interesting because people just assume that people show up and they do whatever. And it’s like no you actually have to be conscious of your scene partner. You know, like, you have to ask questions. Um, you know. There were things where I was like ‘I should just do this’ and I was like oh wait, it might just be cooler if I asked! Like, if I asked them. Like if I ask her if she wants this done, or if you like this done. And, so I think that was pretty cool and kind of mitigated a bit of the challenges that I was feeling otherwise.
-Cut to episode-
Vivi: Come here. … Come here.
Spanking
Vivi: (Nyon seaz minyo malo) You think you can just walk into a girl’s room and she’s gonna wanna fuck you!?
Devon: Well yeah.
-Cut to interview-
Vivi: So, what are your safe sex practices and why?
Devon: What are my safe sex practices, and why? Um, mine are actually pretty rigorous, more than the average queer of my age and gender configuration. Um, but that’s mostly tied to, like, a lot of the ways that I’ve navigated queerness throughout my life. I was exposed to a lot of the… kind of, fall back of unsa- unsafe and high risk safer sex, or lack of safer sex practices in the 80s and 90s growing up here, in the city. Like most of the queer people of colour that I know, male and female, don’t exist anymore because of HIV and AIDS epidemics. So that, like you know, I learned how to put on a condom on like, a doll arm when I was like 4 or 5. *giggles* So, for me it’s second nature and I feel like oftentimes in this era of things like PrEP, like people sometimes think that there’s, like, we just have to wait for the big pharma to get it together and then we can like all just do whatever we want. And I’m still of the old garden, of like ‘Oh no, I remember’, like. *giggle* when things were bad. So my safer sex practices are basically EVERYTHING. I’m mostly fluid bonded with my um, partner. I use gloves, dams, lubes, finger cots. I get tested every 90 days. Um, I will sometimes abstain from sex with certain partners if I know they’re high risk. Um, and pretty much if I’m not fluid bonded, or formally fluid bonded with my scene partner, I kind of, am a stickler about using barriers. What about yourself? What are your safer sex practices? How do you stay, you know, in the clear, basically?
Vivi: Well, I try to have all the appropriate conversations and still make them sexy.
*Both laugh*
Devon: Yeah!
Vivi: And um, you know. I think listening to other people is definitely part of the safe sex practice.
Devon: Mhmm.
Vivi: And just trying to really keep yourself in tune with what these different things mean to your partners and, vocalise them yourself with more ease. Er, I get te- tested very frequently. Whenever I’m at, either my primary care or before I have a shoot I definitely check in. If it’s offered or not offered I’m always like ‘hey, how about we do this today?’ Um, and … I just er, I, I don’t always have sex. Um, and I mean even though it’s like really good for me it might make other people feel like I’m more of a tease, but I think there’s a lot behind like, there’s a lot of eroticism in, in very small, eh, gestures.
Devon: Yeah
Vivi: Like, getting my earring caught on my scarf and having you untangle it. You know.
*Both giggle*
Devon: Like get close behind it
Vivi: Right, like, I could probably get off with, by just talking about it, y’know?
Devon: Yeah
Vivi: Anyway.
*Both laugh*
Vivi: Silly things like that. But definitely asking and making it a comfortable place for us to talk about it, and um… and, so like… and just exploring everything that’s available to us. Whether it’s like, erm, what is it Truvada that’s now accessible.
Devon: Yeah
Vivi: Like, my partner takes that – my personal partner takes that. And like, you know, just keeping ourselves safe and healthy for the… for the fun of it.
Devon: Yeah. I know. I feel like, that’s the funny thing, I think … I’m waiting for the time when safer sex is going to be considered just as sexy and just as risqué. Like, I mean, what is more risqué than trying to avoid this awful STI you could get!? Not that they’re all awful. Most of them are curable. It’s just funny to me how people don’t think of it. They think of it as like ‘Oh, you’re a bore. I have to wear gloves?’ and you’re like ‘YEES Girl! Put on some gloves!’ Like, it won’t kill you, but not wearing them might! Like, and I think what’s really important is that, I feel like, we as, you know, a community of folks could get back to like the tiny eroticism of things; cos that is where it like came from. In the 80s they used to have like phone sex hotlines because people were afraid to like, you know, touch each other cos they didn’t know how the virus was transmitted, so you just call up someone and like, get off on the phone, and like talk about elaborate things. And like now, I honestly, aside from like, the doctors or talking to my mom, like I really can’t tell you the last time I had like a sexy conversation on the phone. Can you? Like when was that last time you had a sexy phone conversation?
Vivi: I try, but many people don’t even like answering their phone anymore.
*Both laugh*
Devon: You wanna call me up for a sexy phone conversation we can!
*Both laugh*
Devon: But I’m just like, where is that?! Like I used to do that when I was a little pervy teenager. Like, I used to call my little girlfriend and be like,
*Vivi breathes heavy, mimicking the telephone recipient*
Devon: ‘Yeah, I’m wearing … these clothes’
*Both laugh*
Devon: But people don’t do that anymore! And like that is safer sex, right there! It’s like, you’re having phone sex like, someone’s like, across the city, or across the country, and like and you guys are having a sexy, fun, intimate, shared time, and look, no fluids were exchanged! So I feel like that is really important. Is like, making those little things sexy again is really cool. And I think, maybe, things like this; using the lipstick as a prop, as its own type of, like, encounter was really cool. Because it wasn’t all about just like… lets touch each other. It’s like, we can touch each other in ways that wouldn’t seem sexual, necessarily. Like, making, like, making out with lipstick on. People would be like ‘Oh that sounds messy’, but actually no that’s really sexy and messy, but like in a fun way!
Vivi: Yeah
Devon: Erm, yeah. I think that’s it.
-Cut to episode-
[off screen] Camera clicks
Moaning and rustling of dental dams
-Cut to interview-
Devon: So, if you have shot before, why do you continue to shoot? Like, why do you do porn?
Vivi: Well it’s fun. I have a great time shooting porn. Um… I think one of the biggest reasons now, it seems to be harder and harder making money at it.
Devon: Mmm
Vivi: it’s just a self-expression. Er, I’ve mentioned, er, weird things, like are fetishes to me. Like I get interested in them, and like, I mean yeah you can do them at home but sometimes like, you’re not going to sit in a cake in your house because you’re like ‘I just cleaned’
Devon: and, like, ‘cos I’m at home’…
Vivi: ‘I just cleaned and I’m at home’…
Devon: ‘And where am I gonna buy the cake?’
*Both giggle*
Vivi: And we can do it in the shoot! And it would just be like, you know, you get to share it with, like, all the people behind the camera too.
*Devon laughs*
Vivi: It’s just, it’s just become a lot more um, self-expressive to me and it’s been a lot of fun and, um, I really like how you can connect with people and like, more so, I mean I haven’t found a way to really connect with my audience cos I don’t like to think about the people who are watching me. But to me it’s fun to show up on set and just be like ‘hey what’s up? Let’s get sexy!’
*Devon laughs*
Vivi: And we get sexy and then we’re like ‘hey hey, what’s up, k, bye’
*Devon chuckles*
Vivi: Like, like we share this really intimate moment and it was totally normal and totally not … carries none of the weirdness in our modern day life.
Devon: Yeah
Vivi: Like, y’know. Uh … and it, and that’s the kinda thing that keeps me coming back. Whenever people offer me shoots, or when I look for shoots, I’m like … who would be fun to shoot with?
Devon: For me it’s the fact that I don’t see bodies like ours in porn.
Vivi: Mhmm
Devon: Like as a person of colour who’s, like, masculine presenting but femme identified, I don’t see someone else like me. I don’t, there’s not even, like, if we’re talking like, oh, words categories, there’s no category for like best male passing effeminate gender queer human; like, so I get lumped into a category that doesn’t even describe me just because there’s, like not enough, space in porn. And so I feel like the more I continue to show up, like eventually they’re going to have to make a damn category for me. Cos there’s going to be a bunch of other people who see that and see themself reflected in, in like the work we’re doing. Like I was really excited cos one, I’ve also never worked with anyone cis, so thank you for being my first cis co-star.
*Both giggle*
Vivi: [off camera] You’re welcome
Devon: And I knew that if I was going to work with someone cis, I wanted it to be a person of colour. Because I did not want to play into any of the like niche stuff that my body gets forced into. If I were to ever do mainstream work I would have to do it either as like, like a kind of men-dingo masculine hyper stereotype, or I would have to, to be like a latent papi?
Vivi: Mm
Devon: who’s like a submissive bottom; and, like I don’t feel like, like both of those characters exist in me, and like I would do that to hustle cos that’s part of being like a trans sex worker of colour, but I don’t want that to be all I have to choose from, like, I’m also like, not that old, but I could like, be cast as older just based on like the racialized elements of porn, and I feel like places like Pink&White and like other queer companies allow people with, y’know, different- different bodies, person of colour bodies, trans bodies, like just the space to do things; and as long as these companies exist I want to shoot for them all.
*Devon chuckles*
Devon: and like, as long as there are enough I will just keep coming back here and shooting again and again and again and, and you said self-expression… really, kinda drives my involvement in porn, because I don’t feel like I get seen properly enough, and so to be able to present myself as I want to be presented, or like show people, like ‘oh yeah, this person can do this’ is really nice for me. It helps me, kind of, like feel more grounded in my identity knowing that people want to see who I am.
-Cut to episode-
*Heavy breathing*
*Kissing*
*Camera clicks*
*Rustling of Devon’s necklace beads*
*Cast and crew laugh*
Cheers and applause
Camera person: Excellent return to the starting line?
-Cut to interview-
Devon: Do you have anything else that you wanna say? Anything that might be relevant to like, what we did today?
Vivi: Mmm
Devon: The fun we had?
Vivi: Well … lets see. Um, I’m trying to think of something. But, like, when you were saying about, um, why you do porn…
Devon: Mhmm
Vivi: I think one of the reasons, well, one of the reasons why I started doing porn was because it was a way, I mean, it was a way to like, reclaim my body and reclaim my identity and definitely be, you know, in a place where I put myself and I, like; I wasn’t seen. I mean, and I still have a hard time finding the things that I, I’m into. Like …
Devon: I know, I only find them on like clips sites which are like not the best cos I’m like ‘I wanna pay for my porn I just can’t pay this person who’s doing what I like’.
Vivi: Awh. Well, for me it’s like I’ll be scrolling through porn and I-I-I and I have the intention of getting off, but really I’m like ‘oh how is she doing that? Lemme try it’, y’know.
*Both giggle*
Vivi: and then I go into like trying to do something and then I’m like ‘Wait! This is not why I got on … Tumblr’ like…
*Both giggle*
Vivi: I got on here cos all I wanna do is get off. Yeah. Um, so I… I mean it’s g- It’s gotta become normalized and the way that you can speak to… uh, I always, I mean this might sound weird, but I always think about the challenge of like, when you’re around y’know, family and children, and like, how do you break that barrier of like, y’know coming out; coming out to children, like what. Nobody thinks about like…
Devon: Mmm.
Vivi: What that’s gonna look like, but I’m gonna have children and y’know.
Devon: Yeah.
Vivi: So it’s just like trying to normalize it an-and understand that like… just it doesn’t all have to be hat we see on mainstream…
Devon: Yeah.
Vivi: and it doesn’t have to be totally weird, like, and maybe you don’t have to talk about it at the dinner table, but… you know, it can be relaxed. I dunno where I was going with that.
*Devon giggles*
Devon: Everybody should talk about porn at the dinner table: I’m with it!
*Vivi laughs*
Devon: Inaudible – make America born again?
Vivi: How about yourself?
Devon: Erm, I dunno. I guess for me, that my parting words would be to other people of colour, other queer people, other switchers, to not allow themselves to be pigeonholed and to push for visibility in the industry; it’s like intimidating as hell. Like I remember the first time I submitted an application to a studio and I was like ‘they ain’t gone pick me’. Like, I’m fat, I haven’t had surgery, I’m not on hormones, I’m not –something- casting? and it was true. But then you know, I was like, ok well how am I gonna, I’m gonna find somewhere to get my foot in the door and that’s what I started doing. I started doing like low budget art films, I have a background in sex work, um, but like not anything that was on film and I was ‘like well I’ve done just about everything but street based work, why don’t I try this?’ And so, I really like it. Like it gives me, like a different type of fun acting. It’s not like acting where I have to be acting, *laughs* to, like, get paid. It’s not like work drag, it’s like fun drag. I feel like coming here is like… fun! And I feel like if everyone knew how much fun it is, everyone would do queer porn!
*Both giggle*
Devon: That’s my shining endorsement. *chuckle* Like, like, if everyone knows how fun it is just show up! Just apply! You’ll probably get accepted. And if not, just keep on applying. Or, just like start watching a lot of porn. That’s how I got into porn. I started watching a lot of porn then I started following porn stars on twitter and then, like, befriending them, and now here I am 5 years later, still doing porn. So that would be it. Like I wanna see more diverse bodies. I wanna see cis women able to top people who look like me and have it not be like a novelty or a rarity. I wanna see trans people fucking other trans people. I wanna see trans masculine people topping people that are not women. You know, I-I dunno. Like, I think in order for our genre to continue to grow especially in times when there are all these ridiculous regulations against like how things can be done, or what can be done, the way to like combat that is to… make more content. Like, if we make enough they’re going to realise that its normal and that we’re just gonna keep on doing this and they’re not gonna be like ‘you can’t spit at eachother, or you can’t cry’. Like even if they’re just gonna let people fuck on camera cos that’s how people fuck. But yeah, I think that’s about it. My closing statement is everyone sign up to do porn if you feel like you want to.
*Both giggle*
Vivi: That last thing I would say is, er… this scenario would have been creepy if we had not consented to it!
*Both laugh*
Devon: This would be creepy and I would never do anything like this in real life!
Vivi: No one’s stalking you on Airbnb and sticking sex toys and then surprising you?
*Both laugh*
Devon: No. That is something we do not buzz anyone try, or try to emulate. Um, this I guess would be like, how to um-how not to be, if you would like to have sex with someone; please do the opposite of this.
*Vivi giggles*
Devon: Don’t transplain. Don’t hide under their bed. Learn that no means no and keep your hands to your fucking self. *Laughs* But no, we consented to this. We are adults. It’s fine. I would never do that. You would never fuck some creep hiding out in your room, hopefully. I mean, I don’t know what you’re into. But like-like *stifled laughter* if they were being that creepy, hopefully you would feel safe enough to make the decision to fuck them or not.
*Both laugh*
Devon: Like… right that’s it.
Camera person: Cool … yay! Super star!