[Crash Pad theme song]
(chatter)

DEVON: Ok, Milo, how did you enjoy the shoot today?

MILO: Um, it was way less intimidating than I thought it was going to be, I was really nervous about it, because this was my first scene, but I was glad that it was with you because we have a history, and I felt really comfortable with you, so, yeah, it was really cool, and really comfortable

DEVON: same question for me, um, what did I enjoy about the scene? Um, I enjoyed that there were a lot of, kind of, versatile dynamics that occoured, and they weren’t necessarily like scripted, but they were just kinda organically happening. Like it wasn’t like, Alright, now I’m gonna be the top, and I’m gonna be the bottom, tag, switch. It was just like, OK, this is what we’re going to be doing now, there was no explanation for why one second I had my hand on your throat, and the next, I’m like getting glitter all over the bed, getting spanked. This is how this is happening, and I really enjoyed that, because I feel like, sometimes, scenes feel very like, “Alright, changing of the guard”.

MILO: Yeah, totally. Cool.

MILO: Um, did you find anything challenging or hard about it?

DEVON: Um, yes, I feel like I was a little nervous, because I haven’t shot yet in kind of this new body, I had surgery like, uh, 32 days ago, so I had my hysto and top surgery done at the same time, and I haven’t really had much sex since, and so, I was like “Let’s see how this works” and “Let’s see how this body works” and you know, like we do have a history, and like 4 years later, and now here I am in a completely different package, deal with it.

MILO: Yeah, that what was like, scary for me was like that it had been 4 years, and that you have a different body now, and I wasn’t sure if you were into the same things, or like how to touch you, and like, but I think it was more in my head, and like valid concerns, but I think it went OK.

DEVON: I feel like it’s pretty common in general, with like trans bodies, whether they’re like genderqueer, or like trans-male, and like you can never assume, and that’s like what gave me pause as well. Well, I know what we were doing two genders ago, but now that we’ve changed a lot about how we identify, and like partners we take up with, like, how is this going to translate into a narrative that’s going to be watchable, and not petrifying to both of us. So, yeah, I think that was the biggest challenge, just, like, more so nerves about how everything was going to work, and then how we were going to work on our scene when we were too busy fucking, and didn’t finish it

MILO: I think it went OK

DEVON: Yeah, I think it went OK, I think we’ll live without the rest of that, without you turning me into a

MILO: To be continued

DEVON: yeah, we’ll come back again

DEVON: What are your safer sex practices, and what makes them your safer sex practices, and why do they exist?

MILO: Well, I have multiple partners, so I want to be sure to be safe with everyone, so I use condoms, and I wash my toys, and make sure that, you know, we have showered between having sex with different partners, and whatnot.

DEVON: Mine are ridiculously exhaustive for numerous reasons, first and foremost, I was actually born with congenital syphilis, so, ever since I was old enough to know what STIs were, and that they affect people by whether choice, or by accident, or in my case, literally by birth, I’ve always had almost extreme practices, I’ve actually been shamed for how exhaustive my practices are in the past with less than awesome partners. Now, everyone in my life is like, OK, we get this, basically has med suits for everyone. But, unless I’m fluid-bonded with a partner, I’m pretty-much, dams, condoms, gloves, um, like you said, no double-dipping, no unclean toys, I actually use several things to clean my toys in addition to boiling them. One of them, protip: if you’re ever in a rush, they make incontinence spray that you can spray on toys. It’s meant for like poop and pee, but it works for germs too. So, yeah, those really impact the way I play, so, yeah, like I said, gloves, dams, condoms, lots of lube. I get tested literally every 90 days, whether I’m active or not, and even if it’s before 90 days if I take up with anyone new, just to honor their body and their space, I get tested before I sleep with anyone, and I get the works. So, yeah, I probably do way too much, that’s just the way I roll.

DEVON: I continue to do porn because, one, there’s not a lot of bodies that look like mine in porn, even though I’ve had surgery, I feel like there’s not many bodies that have necessarily lived thru what my body has lived thru, if that makes any sense. Like, I used to be a person of size, and back then, I could not find myself in porn, at the frick all. I was like, well, there are people of size, but they’re usually a very specific shape, or they’re like on a site specifically for BBWs, this was when I was female identified, or it’s like not queer at the fuck all, there’s no feminist mind stuff going on behind the scenes, and so I began to start to look for myself in porn. I couldn’t find myself in porn, so then I started to do porn, and my body has gone thru massive changes over the course of my, I guess, career, because I’ve shot more than 3 scenes, that’s why I say career. Um, and I feel like I continue to do porn, even though my body does look much more normative now, because of just like the body I’ve lived in. I mean, I have surgical scars that are not transition related, that are either self-injury related, or parts that intersect with my disability, and having chronic illness, and then, you know, my body is not perfect by industry standards, even by queer porn standards, technically, because I’ve got stretch marks, hyper-pigmentation on my back from years of wearing a binder, I’ve got chest acne, I’m trying to figure out my niche in this market, even within the queer porn market, because I still struggle to find bodies that look like mine, even though I feel like my body looks like every trans-guy’s body now. So, that’s why I keep doing it, so other people, who’s bodies aren’t perfect, or whose genders isn’t as concrete as some depictions of trans-men in porn, or their sexuality even, because I’m queer, not straight or gay, Yeah, that’s why I keep doing it, and because it’s fun. I mean, I like to do it, I like to bone. Why not. What brought you to porn, though, is my question?

MILO: Um, I’ve like had a lot of shame around sex for most of my life. Obviously being raised in this culture, that is a lot of people’s experience, but mine’s specifically was like really shameful, and like, oh, I don’t know, I don’t want to…

DEVON: If you have sex, you’ll get pregnant and die.

MILO: Yeah, pretty much that, pretty much the mean girl status. So, I wanted to challenge the way I was brought up, and challenge this culture and society’s norms of what is appropriate, and what is OK for certain bodies to do with who, and how, all of that. And also, I have a lot of internalized shame about that, and then also, just like mental health issues, and how those things interact, and I wanted to challenge that and to be present with my partner, and with myself, and be comfortable with expressing my sexuality, so I just really wanted to like push the boundaries of that, and hope that it will translate into more of like my personal private life. And it’s also fun

DEVON: Yeah, no, it’s definitely like, people don’t talk about that, but it’s like healing and cathartic, like, I was tweeting about this scene coming up, a few months ago, I was like we’ve seen each other thru like, sobriety, relapse, recovery, mental health stuff, both of us, like with fluid genders, and like, that’s not really talked about in porn, so it’s interesting that’s the reason we’re both showing up. We’re like “Look, we’re still here, we can still do this, there’s a backstory behind it”. That’s why I love these exit interviews, like, here’s what we just did and why. It’s so cool. I hope you shoot more.

MILO: I hope you shoot more too.

DEVON: I guess, in the terms of what we were shooting, I guess there’s a lot of stuff going on in San Francisco about supposedly appropriative identities, and who can own what label, and a lot of these labels are tied to masculinity, and machismo, and things are pretty much inherently toxic. And I think that that was kind of why I wanted to do a punks vs skins thing, because, how often do you see a punk that’s not like a cis- white dude, with like a shaved head, how often do you see a cute, genderqueer little punk who’s going to spank a black skinhead. And I thought that was a really interesting idea to play off of. So, I guess that’s the only agenda I have to push, there’s not a need to stake claims on these really rigid subcultures. Yeah, I think that’s it.

MILO: Cool. We’re in the same boat there.