In this Behind the Scenes interview with performers Aviva and Selphie, we delve deep into the waters of trans visibility within porn and at large. Selphie also discusses her Tourette syndrome tics and comfort on set.

Transcription:
(music)

OFF SCREEN: We’ll just start from here [?] entrance…

OFF SCREEN (Cam POV): Okay. Little more… Okay. 1… 2… 3… Okay.

OFF SCREEN (Director?): And ready when you are.

(giggling and breathing)

SELPHIE (OS): Put that in there.

(Crinkling sounds – knocking noise. Sound of plastic crinkling.)

OFF SCREEN: Got it.

[Cut to interview 00:50]

SELPHIE: How did you enjoy the shoot today?

AVIVA: I came several times. (laugh) And up my butthole hurts, but I had a really nice time, and I’m glad that we did this together.

SELPHIE: (laugh) Cool.

AVIVA: (laugh) How do you feel about the shoot?

SELPHIE: I, I was really nervous at first. Um…

AVIVA: Oh my god, yeah.

SELPHIE: And, and I had a lot of anxiety, like, throughout the day, like, thinking about, like, what should I look like… what, you know, what’s a trans girl supposed to look like for, for these things. Like, this is a… you know, all all this stuff. But as soon as we got into it, it was just, like…

AVIVA: It was like us doing…

SELPHIE: It was just like us! It was like us, like, it was like us when I feel like we’re having the most fun.

AVIVA: Mm-hmm.

SELPHIE: Um… Which, which felt really good and I just felt comfortable like asking you questions and, like… and I had all the supplies I needed and… I felt, I felt really good. And, it was really fun to just… top… to just top you. To just top you and, like, give you pleasure and, like, watch you come and, like… That’s just one of my favorite things in the world. And like, no matter what setting I’m in, like that’s great.

(laugh)

AVIVA: Yeah. It was really cute, not having to squeeze four hundred free lube sample packets [? bottle ?].

SELPHIE: I know. I know we actually had, like bottles of lube. It was nice not having to worry about my Tourette’s Syndrome, like… Like, I haven’t worried about that the whole time I’ve been here which just felt really good. And I just felt comfortable. I haven’t held anything in, and like that happens a lot during sex and like I felt shame around that like my whole life, but I don’t feel like that with you. But, you know, cuz, you, you make me feel really comfortable around that. But… (laugh)

AVIVA: Good.

SELPHIE: But you know like when we’re in an apartment it’s just like there’s upstairs neighbors. There’s downstairs neighbors. There’s left, there’s right. You know, or for when it’s some goofy, some goofy house with like eight other people living in the house, it’s just like, I’m like, okay. I can’t get away with not everybody knowing that I’m having sex and like…

AVIVA: Mm-hmm.

SELPHIE: Like the way that I have sex is just like, it-it’s difficult, like, it’s difficult. But, but I love it. And I love having sex with you, and like this setting was just kind of a breath of fresh air. Just like, I’m going to do this, I’m going to express this, this is who I am, like, I’m gonna go for it. And, I just let it out, and I just let myself be free in that way and… And that felt great. And I love you. (laugh)

AVIVA: Hmmmmmmmmmm I love you. It’s kind of nice to be able to just fuck for a second too.

SELPHIE: I know, I know. And get paid for it.

AVIVA: (laugh) That’s also good…

SELPHIE: to get to like, fuck, I mean I mean you know to get paid for it, but like, to get paid for it and to have sex the way that I want to be having sex and be paid for that, like, I don’t know, like, that’s cool.

AVIVA: Uh huh

(laugh)

AVIVA: Yeah

SELPHIE: Like that was really how I would like to be having sex with you.

AVIVA: Mmhmm

SELPHIE: You know.

AVIVA: Okay so that’s with like five strap-ons with two butt plugs and a Hitatchi…

SELPHIE: Omigod, the supplies…

AVIVA: Okay, I’ll write that down. (laugh)

SELPHIE: The supplies, having supplies. It’s just like, that just makes things so much more fun.

AVIVA: Omigod it’s also kinda like cute and goofy (laugh) being like, Oh, great! All literal, all of my friends are going to get to like hear me having earth shattering orgasms (laugh – ?) That’s exciting.

SELPHIE: Yeah, I mean… I… I’m kind of nervous about that myself because like that’s something that like really only super intimate partners of mine get to see. Um, but now, it’s you know, now it’s on the internet. Who knows where where it will go from here. And that’s exciting! That’s exciting for me. That’s like, that’s like me loving myself and like opening myself up into the world and like thrusting myself out and like that’s cool.

AVIVA: Are you going to watch it, like on a projector?

SELPHIE: I’ve watched my porn before and it’s just the most cringe-worthy thing I’ve ever watched, but like maybe I’ll watch this one. (laugh)

AVIVA: We should have a screening party.

SELPHIE: Yeah.

(laugh)

SELPHIE: We should have a screening party! Oh, no…. HAH!

[5;43 fade to scene]

SELPHIE (OS): Smaller than this, er… this one’s bigger than this one.

AVIVA (OS): This one’s bigger than this one?

SELPHIE (OS): Just slightly though.

AVIVA (OS): Can you just fuck me with this one?

SELPHIE: Okay!

(cast and crew laughs)

SELPHIE: You slut…

AVIVA: Yeah.

(laughing)

[Fade back to interview 6:00]

SELPHIE: Um… well… we… I don’t know we… we have, we have like a psychic rapport that we both acknowledge.

AVIVA; It’s intense.

SELPHIE: it’s, it’s really intense for us.

(laugh)

SELPHIE: Um… but we, I feel like we worked really hard to make sure that we’re communicating like, throughout a sexual experience you know cuz like, verbally…

AVIVA: Mmmhmm. Verbally… and like, physical,

SELPHIE: We do, we do taps, like slower, faster, ok that’s enough, you know, I need a break. Um.

AVIVA: Mhm

SELPHIE: You know, like, like our, like if there’s different options for like different dildos and something like either A or B. You know.

AVIVA: Just keeping each other really informed about what’s going on with everybody’s…

SELPHIE: And while, and like while… I’m fucking, like, her, I’ll be like okay here I go. Like breathe in, and breathe out…

AVIVA: and sometimes I’m just like, Wait a minute, what kind of lube is on that. You know, if like need clarification, you (?)

SELPHIE: And then like throughout, I’m like, do you need more lube, is this too much, do you want me to keep going do you want me to slow down, and you’ll do the same thing. you’ll be like, slow down. Keep going. Stop.

AVIVA: Oh Yeah.

SELPHIE: It’s like really open communication. Like, I think a lot of people are really scared of saying words during sex.

AVIVA: mmhmm Like it’s going to get ruined or something.

SELPHIE: It’s like you’re ruining the sex.

AVIVA: We broke the sex illusion. It’s like, no, the sex was really…

SELPHIE: (Screamed) You’re a fffff….

AVIVA: Like no, the sex was really happening. You can really talk about how to do it in a way that’s safe and fun for you.

SELPHIE: And sex can be other things. Sex can be like, oh my god, this is the most mind-blowing sexual experience I’ve ever had, blah blah blah, but it can also be like this is the silliest sex I’ve ever had in my life and I’m having fun. (laugh – ?) You know or how like, everything in this sexual experience is going haywire and that’s hilarious.

AVIVA: Mmmhmmm.

SELPHIE: Or and just not putting pressure on like coming.

AVIVA: Mhm. Or like, understanding is like, hundreds, well, maybe not hundred but like so many different kinds of…

SELPHIE: Billions

AVIVA: Billions, billions of orgasms. (Laugh) lots and lots of different ways that coming can look and feel like.

SELPHIE: And, yeah.

AVIVA: Yeah. We do have, I have a Truvada prescription which I don’t really consider being a part of my safer sex practice, but it’s like, it’s just there and I’m still using prophylactic barriers for the most part.

SELPHIE: Yeah.

AVIVA: With other people. We sleep with other people fairly often.

SELPHIE: Yeah. One way we stay safe also did not do on this time is, uh, very short nails. Very short lesbian nails which

AVIVA: Have we always done that or is it just usually…

SELPHIE: It’s usually. well you never do that, I do that. You always have long nails.

AVIVA: Whoaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

SELPHIE: But I also don’t like to bottom. Like in, like in that way.

AVIVA: That’s true

SELPHIE: I usually keep my nails short and like

AVIVA: Except for that one time

SELPHIE: Well, yeah. Except for like right now.

AVIVA: This is the second time. (laugh)

SELPHIE: But I also think there’s a safety in, in being gay. Being lesbian. Like, I feel like we’re in a lesbian relationship and like there’s a certain… There are certain things that are just like easier for us as trans lesbians.

AVIVA: To navigate

SELPHIE: To navigate. And that feels, that feels safer.

AVIVA: Yeah like us navigating like safer…

SELPHIE: (clap) Shut up!

AVIVA: … sex practices navigating consent doesn’t have to come with, like, giving a 101 to someone about how to interact with trans femininity before we can even talk about what kind of barrier to use. You know?

SELPHIE: I know. Yeah.

AVIVA: It’s relieving.

SELPHIE: And that’s, that’s led me to only seek out being with, you know, sexually, trans women for like, God, almost two years now.

AVIVA: (?) Gold star!

SELPHIE: I mean, not to say that… I mean, maybe I, maybe I am gold star.

AVIVA: Yeah, there’s something…

SELPHIE: I would love to be a gold star lesbian.

AVIVA: Like a time thing.

SELPHIE; But um, not… not to say that i don’t have sex with men or other non-women but those are for very different gains. And like having… yeah I don’t know. Maybe I don’t need to go much further than that. (laugh)

AVIVA: Everybody knows I love to fuck a faggot. It’s just a weird thing of mine. (laugh)

SELPHIE: yeah it’s like being a lesbian but like also fucking faggots doesn’t take away from me being a lesbian.

AVIVA: It’s something about like that butchness of like non-masculinity than enters the, like takes the power of masculinity and uses it in a way that’s not toxic masculinity. That I think out of fucking faggots. And like kinda like about being a fisting top, it’s like, I kinda get this like sleazy rush that’s like almost masculine but it’s like it’s not really masculinity because removed from it’s toxicity, it’s butchness.

SELPHIE: I love you so much.

AVIVA: (laugh)

SELPHIE: You’re so fucking cool.

[fade to scene 11:45]

SELPHIE: No!

AVIVA: (moan)

SELPHIE: Alright now lift it up.

(cast and crew laughs)

AVIVA (offscreen): I’m okay.

SELPHIE (offscreen): You’re okay. You sure you’re okay?

AVIVA (offscreen): Yeah I’m fine.

SELPHIE (offscreen): Good. Yeah, Let’s try that again.

(laugh)

SELPHIE: Broke your neck on that one.

(Buzzing noise rustling…)

AVIVA: First rule of bottom school. Never fall!

(laugh)

SELPHIE (offscreen): Come more this side.

AVIVA: Okay. Pull me!

[Fade back to interview – 12:38]

AVIVA: If you’ve done porn before, as I’ve suspect you have, why do you continue to do porn?

SELPHIE: Um, yes, I’ve done porn before. I just did a…

AVIVA: Who is she?

SELPHIE: You! You! She’s you! That’s who she is! Um, uh, I mean, I… I originally got into sex work to like, I don’t know basically it was, really difficult means I got into it. And I found myself in porn, and I’ve found myself signing up for porn things, and it was really… I needed money. I needed money. I needed to not, uh… I needed to be safe. Um, and… I think being… I think I’ve gotten to see a lot of the the sort of queer porn movement stuff that’s happening and how within that there’s a body positivity sort of momentum within that that I’ve always really appreciated. Um, you know, not always… not always seeing the types of bodies that you feel like are your body suddenly being represented in porn is like really really exciting and really really affirming, um…

AVIVA: Necessary.

SELPHIE: Yeah, necessary. And that’s the reason I want to be in porn, um, but.. but I dunno. Porn’s also hard to be in. I just don’t feel like there’s a lot of opportunities. Or if there are a lot of opportunities for me as a trans woman, it’s like the kinds of people who are going to be hiring, I need to have a more hyper femininity that needs to be sold, like I need to have a huge boob job and I feel like I need like some cheekbone implants and I feel like I need this and I feel like I need that in order to really build my career as a porn star or a porn performer. Um, and it’s nice to have places like this, but I think if I was going to keep going in porn I feel like I would need to really invest in some serious bodymods.

AVIVA: Yeah you have to make your trade sustainable.

SELPHIE: I would need to make my trade sustainable, yeah.

AVIVA: And it sure doesn’t come sustainable, yeah to a lot (?)…

SELPHIE: Have you been in porn and, if so, what keeps you in porn if you’re still keeping to do it?

AVIVA: Well, you filmed two of my porns.

SELPHIE: I did.

AVIVA: So I can’t bother lying to you about it. Yeah so I guess I’ve been in a few. My first porn was this really goofy one that was filmed like, on like practically the location of the Sound of Music. Somewhere in the mountains. And I fucked some one with…

SELPHIE: (screams) DON’T

AVIVA: …fucked someone with a stiletto for the first time. And it was all very goofy, and it was on super 8 film actually, it got stolen. Then I was in some other porns that pretty much got stolen except for ones that ended up on a certain unnamable large producer of trans-girl porn um, (laugh).

SELPHIE: Been there.

AVIVA: But I think I do porn… I would ike to say I do porn for the feminist empowerment because I feel very strongly that it’s like vital for trans-women especially trans-women of color to see ourselves, like, not just represented but to like, to feel ownership over our image. You know, I feel, in a lot of ways… um, drawn to do work that not only just not only like brings visibility to my tits but brings visibility to the issues that trans women, and the way to a man’s attention is through his genitals. So that’s a thing. And a need for money has obviously been a big factor. It’s been a, um, being having a physical disability, porn it’s like kind of the steadiest job that I’ve been able to have.

SELPHIE: Yeah. Yeah.

AVIVA: It’s a little easier to get fucked and then like, get really fucked once every few months. So…

SELPHIE: Shhhhhhhhhhhhhut up.

AVIVA: Yeah, it’s okay. Also I love getting fucked. (laugh)

SELPHIE: There’s something about like all the porn that’s ever been made about trans-women you know…

AVIVA: We just like, don’t own it. It’s not ours.

SELPHIE: …being made, yeah. Being made by all these chasers, it’s not ours, it’s not like owned by us, like it’s not like for us, it’s like for these like chasers um, who are just hyper objectifying who are… what does it look like to make porn for ourselves like that’s a really exciting thing like to think about.

AVIVA: Yeah, like stiletto muffing.

SELPHIE: Yeah like stiletto muffing.

AVIVA: It’s like what do trans dykes like to do…

SELPHIE: What do trans dykes do?

AVIVA: We like to stick stilettos in each other! (laugh) You know?

SELPHIE: Yeah!

AVIVA: It’s like building a culture (?).

SELPHIE: God and what if, and I was looking at porn when I was like, a little girl. To be honest, like 12 years old I had like a computer with internet and I was like googling weird things. And what if I saw that, what if I saw trans dykes loving each other?

AVIVA: God knows.

SELPHIE: God knows.

AVIVA: What if like on daytime television people weren’t like embarrassed to know about trans women because it’s assumed they only know about us from porn… you know? What if you could say the word transsexual and cis people could interact with it without admitting that they watch tranny porn? That would change everything. Cuz you can’t have a dialogue about it now.

SELPHIE: Never. You can’t.

AVIVA: People have to act like they’ve never heard about it before, at best. They could be like, what’s that? Oh, teach me everything. It’s like, bitch, you know about trans women. I know. You have seen quite a few.

SELPHIE: Gosh.

AVIVA: Trans women doing some strange things.

SELPHIE: Gosh, but like the, the trans girl porn that gets made also creates like

AVIVA: This amazing myth.

SELPHIE: This like amazing myth of like look at like…

AVIVA: At what point was I hard today?

SELPHIE: Yeah, like…I use a strap on to fuck you like, we’re lesbians. Like,

AVIVA: We use strap-ons.

SELPHIE: We use strap-ons like and when a chaser is trying to fuck with you they have this really idealized fantasy of what you are because all they do is watch tranny porn all day. And if you’re not performing in the ways they’re performing on those websites, then it’s just like, what are you doing? Or, if you’re not feminine enough, and like you’re, you’re, maybe you are butch lesbian than it’s like who are you… (?)

AVIVA: Why were you ever going to get work as a butch lesbian…

SELPHIE: Were you ever going to work as a butch lesbian…

AVIVA: You know… Cuz sex work is the industry for trans-girls and butch lesbians are totally ostracized from it so what are you going to do?

SELPHIE: I know. I know. I know I even feel like I can’t express a lot of myself as a butch trans woman.

AVIVA: We’re not allowed.

SELPHIE: It’s like it’s like we’re not allowed to be a butch trans woman.

AVIVA: Someone codes you as a man. (?)

SELPHIE: Yeah you get coded as a man.

AVIVA: Yeah. Oh well though! At least we’re really good at contours. (laugh)

SELPHIE: Well, you did my contours today. So.

AVIVA: It’s true.

SELPHIE: You’re really good at contours. Let’s, let’s just say that.

(laugh)

AVIVA: I love you.

SELPHIE: I love you!

OFFSCREEN: I think that’s it!

SELPHIE: Yay!

OFFSCREEN: Awesome.